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I agree, but with a caveat. Google closing reader wasn't RSS' tombstone, for sure. Rss is stronger than ever and, as pointed out in the article, it's still widely used by small and big players on the Web. Unfortunately Google Reader was the gateway into the RSS realm for those folks who just wanted a quick way to keep track of their news. For those folks, who aren't certainly programmer nor can appreciate the subtleties of RSS' survival, RSS is definitively dead. Those folks are the vast majority of Web users. I think we may say that the most popular front-end usage of RSS has died when Google closed reader.

I don't agree with the void-to-be-filled theory, because that void has been quickly filled already by Twitter, Facebook and other self-sufficing, closed and mind numbing services that have nothing to do with the fluid open nature of RSS. Many many users have quickly shifted to that mindset and they won't be back. Do you think those millions of BuzzFeed reader can give a crap about RSS?

So yeah, you can archive google reader closing shop in the "google's unforgivable mistake" directory.

Source: I'm a web editor (not for English speaking websites as you may have understood) since 2006. I've seen the shift all happen under my eyes. It's sort of disgusting.



> Unfortunately Google Reader was the gateway into the RSS realm for those folks who just wanted a quick way to keep track of their news

I confess: I literally cannot understand this. There must be a thousand RSS readers, many of them allowing at least some privacy, some of them by e.g. not running on a remote server, which also means their existence and usefulness does not depend on someone always being kind enough not to pull the plug. What the bloody hell was so special about Google Reader?


Features, performance and, later, social network. I used standalone readers but they were poorly suited for casual use – fire it up, wait minutes for every feed to be checked, etc. – and they require a lot of local storage + CPU to do things like store history, determine whether an item has substantially changed or had only cosmetic corrections, etc.

Reader used Google's infrastructure so it was always running and your feeds were up to date when you opened them (unlike most desktop readers, they also adjusted the schedule automatically so frequently updated feeds were polled more frequently), and they stored everything with first-class search for history, which also came in handy if a popular site was overloaded since the cached feed content could still be viewed.

Finally, the real jump in usage happened when they enabled social features. Being able to see who else had publicly shared or commented on an item was a great way to find people with similar interests and there were many great conversations to be found. See http://www.buzzfeed.com/robf4/googles-lost-social-network for a rundown of just how popular Reader's social features were. I believe a key reason why Google+ never went anywhere was because Google actively killed the Reader network and a large percentage of early adopters, journalists, writers, etc. got the message that you should never invest more than transient time in a Google product.


"frequently updated feeds were polled more frequently"

Even better, they supported pubsubhubbub, and were a very early adopter. I think even now, most readers don't support this - it's one of the reasons I settled on Newsblur as a replacement. When I tested with my own feeds, I saw new items appear within seconds of publishing them.


Good point - update latency was definitely a large part of why I chose Newsblur.


For me it was the ability to search all my subscriptions' history from the beginning of time.

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I think that with the impending Google+ restructuring, we might see Google Reader resurrected.


I doubt it'd come back from the dead but if they put some effort into making sharing / finding friend's shares in, you might see something similar to separate things to read from status updates and lunch photos. After, of course, unbreaking the social model which won't happen quickly.


Ease of use.

Not everybody wants to setup an RSS reader (or knows what one is).


But setting up an RSS reader is no different from installing any application. For crying out loud, that means going to an app store for much of the RSS-reading Internet or clicking next, next and finish for the rest of it.

I know I sound like an elitist schmuck when I say it, but I'm increasingly starting to think all this ease-of-use thing is getting a bit out of hand. If there are people are willing to sacrifice performance (Google Reader's UI was slower than Liferea's first versions, and that's something!), privacy and reliability (an installed RSS reader does always work, as opposed to a public, remote service, ran by an advertising company) just because clicking "Install" is hard for them, I honestly wish all these bad, evil companies they're outraged about mine the shit out of them, from their eye color to the size of their underwear. I get legitimate cases (e.g. you're behind company firewall and you're on your work computer so you can't install anything), but installing a program really shouldn't be a difficult task otherwise.


While I get the sentiment, I'm thankful that you don't run the world.

Most computer users forget that they have years and years of experience with computers, because they actually played with computers for their own fun for years. So the things that seem drop-dead simple for them are drop-dead simple if you have years of experience.

I'm certainly thankful my doctor has never told me "you know, if you can't be bothered to understand biology, I'll just let the diseases kill you", when he has 7+ years of knowledge that I don't.


> Most computer users forget that they have years and years of experience with computers, because they actually played with computers for their own fun for years.

The fact that pretty much any user who reads RSS feeds uses applications that do not come with the operating system by default is, I think, proof enough that installing an application is really not that difficult. Being one, I get why Slackware users have issues with that (hhehe) but we're really not talking about a complex maintenance issue here...


We're not committing our users to death. All we're asking is that they learn how to put on a bandaid.


I think this is a common attitude today in all walks of life. We seem to be incapable of thinking for ourselves now, whether when using a computer or crossing the street. I'm amazed that we're still allowed to drive cars.


Don't worry, soon, we won't. Just wait for the statistics to show autonomous cars are safer, legislation will soon follow. Give it 20, 30 years tops.


I don't want to use a standalone RSS reader any more than a standalone email client. There's a reason everybody [1] switched to webmail.

In any case, a web RSS reader that I run myself (tt-rss or similar) is a pretty good compromise.

[1] Yes, person who is about to reply, I know you personally didn't.


There's a reason everybody [1] switched to webmail.

No, "everybody" uses Outlook because corporate IT likes how all the microsoft stuff integrates with itself.

Everybody also apparently uses their phones for email now, which I understand tends to use installed apps rather than the web browser.

[1] Yes, person who is about to reply, I know you personally didn't.

Right, ignore and marginalize all the people who have counterexamples to your claims.


I actually use Outlook as an RSS reader. It's not very good but it works and that way everything is in one place.

Also, I think Outlook is much better than any other mail/calendar client I've ever used.

I read HN, Reuters, Re/Code, Atlantic and New Yorker in Outlook. I love the mostly text-only experience and am finding that I read content in a less prejudiced way when all the color distraction is gone.


>[1] Yes, person who is about to reply, I know you personally didn't.

Maybe you should have said "Some people," then.


E-mail clients are a terrible example. While relatively easy to install, they give you very little control, and no additional privacy.

To get all that, you need your own server. Ideally a home server, but many ISP forbid you to send e-mail at all (they close port 25). The next best thing is a remote virtual machine with root access. Either way, good luck installing Postfix and Dovecot. I have, and there's no way the "average user" could do the same.

So, of course you don't use an e-mail client.


>many ISP forbid you to send e-mail at all (they close port 25).

Can anyone name an ISP that forbids their customers from using SMTP to send mail?

My guess is that the person I'm quoting is confused by the longstanding spam-control measure in which the ISP requires the outgoing mail to go through a mail server designated by (and usually run by) the ISP rather than going directly to the recipient's mail server.

But if I'm wrong about that, I want to know!


I'm not confused, and know exactly what you are talking about.

Call it pedantic, but yes, they do forbid you to send e-mails. Instead, they force you to ask them to send e-mail for you (that's how SMTP relays work). They're not completely forbidding you to use SMTP, but they do require that you go through their servers. That's quite the restricted SMTP usage.

The snail mail equivalent would be to forbid you to ship your mail yourself. Instead you have to give it to the official postal services so they can ship the mail.

Why would they do that? I see only one reason: they want to control your mail. They look at the destination, and maybe decide they won't ship the mail after all. They look at how much mail you send out, and maybe they won't send more than a dozen per day. They may open the mail (or otherwise X-ray it), and take "appropriate" action depending on the content, including not shipping it, building a customer profile of you and your recipients, writing your name on some black list, or archive the mail, just in case.

Spam mitigation? That's just a pretext they use to snoop over your private communications. (Or, more accurately, control their network. They will always push for more corporate control, that's what corporations do.)

Of course, you can bypass the limitation by using HTTP to ask another big corporation to send your mail. And receive and store your mail too. And deeply analyse it so they can show you customized banners. And give it to the authorities whenever they ask for it…

Such an Orwellian nightmare would never fly in the physical world. In the digital one however, they can capitalize on people's ignorance.


> I don't want to use a standalone RSS reader any more than a standalone email client. There's a reason everybody switched to webmail.

I do use a standalone client. IMAP is nice enough with the messages and I don't mix my personal and work contacts, so the addressbooks are easy to sync. Unfortunately, save for Roundcube, which sucks in moderation, I'm not aware of any single webmail client that doesn't suck.

The same goes for my RSS feeds, but I do have a setup that is probably hard to replicate for someone who doesn't work with computers for a living, so that doesn't count in the argument :-).

P.S.: I actually use webmail for work account because IT hates me. It's not too bothersome. The only thing stopping me from migrating my personal accounts to their respective webmail interfaces is not being able to import my abook contacts :-).


Also, sync. Reading from multiple devices is frustrating if the read/favourite history isn't carried over.


This, very much. I often read my feeds while commuting, walking, waiting, etc. with a phone or a tablet. Then I read with one PC or another. If the reads wouldn't be synced, a lot of time would be spent just skipping the posts I've already seen.


Ah, yes, this is nice indeed.


Plus Google Reader had some pretty magic features like adding an RSS feed and getting years of history because it already knew about it.


One of the biggest features still missing from my chosen replacement (feedly).


I start reading my RSS feed in the morning sometimes on a tablet. On the bus in the morning, I switch to my phone. Sometimes, when I want to read something in more depth or send to a colleague at work, I open it up on my work computer. Then, at home at night, it's back to the tablet or my laptop.

The operating systems involved include iOS, Windows, and Linux.

Which standalone RSS feed will allow me to keep track of what I've read on all places?


You might look at Fever[1] ($30) or Tiny Tiny RSS[2] (free). I seem to remember hearing about a few others back when Google Reader went down, but I don't recall their names.

1. http://www.feedafever.com/

2. http://tt-rss.org/redmine/projects/tt-rss/wiki


Millions of non-geeks subscribe to podcasts. Those podcasts are delivered, (notification of new podcast), through RSS. The user doesn't have to know they are using RSS. They just download install any podcast app from the app store or the play store and search for podcasts inside the app. The fact that RSS is what makes it work is irrelevant to them but it does make it work.

I suspect it also powers things like Flipboard and Zite (no idea of people still use those).


"that void has been quickly filled already by Twitter, Facebook and other self-sufficing, closed and mind numbing services that have nothing to do with the fluid open nature of RSS."

RSS was there before Facebook and Twitter.

RSS will be there after Facebook and Twitter.

One of the neat things about RSS is that I don't have to care whether it's the Most Popular Thing. I just need a reader, and someone publishing it. No "boil the ocean" required. I used RSS back when the number of publishers could be counted in the dozens. It was still a useful technology!

If you're then inclined to argue "but what if everyone stops publishing it?", a "boil the ocean" of its own, my response is that I'll worry about that when it happens. That would take a lot of people to stop publishing it, and... in modern times, it's so easy to publish RSS, and you own it, not like your Twitter or Facebook integration, so I don't expect the value proposition to go sour for everyone for a long time. (And I don't really have to worry about all the readers going belly up, there's enough open-source desktop readers if nothing else. To say nothing of the open source server-delpoyable ones.)


just need a reader, and someone publishing it.

But publishing it takes effort, and if usage isn't high enough people might stop.


It takes effort proportional to the number of content creation methods, though, not proportional to the amount of content. On an amortized basis the effort is tiny, and the gain is often greater than the cost. Even if you want to argue the gain is tiny itself.

And, frankly, that's already a dubious claim and getting more dubious. An RSS subscriber is very "stickied", and thus very valuable in a lot of ways. I mean that even beyond mere money. A lot of the other putatively "better" approaches are a great deal less powerful, again, because you don't own it, the "better" service does. Witness the way Facebook decides whether or not your "subscribers" get to see your posts, making them a great deal less valuable than an RSS-subscribed reader. I expect this to play out over and over, and for RSS to retain its position of indicating "I am a serious subscriber" for a good long time.

Facebook et al can offer you a better short-term outcome, but as such things scale up, the incentives pretty inevitably turn towards trying to capture the value of your subscriber base themselves. RSS disintermediates that fairly successfully. And since nothing particularly stops you from offering that on the side... why not?


Nah. Publishing an RSS feed is basically free, consumes few resources, and requires little maintenance, comparable to a sitemap generator.


Case in point, a client of mine (one of the top 2 or 3 US corporations you might think of off the top of your head outside of tech) wanted to start publishing a daily email digest of content aggregated from all their content outlets. I tell them OK, send me all your feeds, I'll whip it up in no time, and there it was, delivered early and under budget. They publish on Wordpress, Tumblr, etc, sites that give you RSS feeds without work.

It's much easier to go to /rss and get the content than have to coordinate with however many teams and organizations it took to create all those sites.


Probably more importantly, I have never found a decent reader.


Which ones have you tried? For me, RSS readers are a pretty personal thing, like text editors. People have preferences for how they want to read this stuff.


I haven't used one since Newshutch shut down back in 2009 or so. I can't remember the names of any that I tried except Google Reader, which I used for about... 20 minutes total?

Probably not coincidentally, that's about when I started using HN.


Have you tried The Old Reader (whose blog post you just read)?

I absolutely love it. Unfortunately, I had to give up on using it last week since I had too many feeds to stay on the free version.

I'm now using Digg's Reader and I'm happy so far. Updates more often than (the free version of) The Old Reader too!


InoReader(.com) is the only one I've found post-Google Reader that gets out of my way and lets me read things. The experience on mobile could be improved, but it works well enough for me.


I just use rss2email. Everything I want an RSS reader to do, good MUAs already do.


It'd be very interesting for a major player like Wordpress.com or Feedburner to release some statistics on the number of view their feeds actually get now compared to, say, 5 years ago. I suspect your "stronger than ever" is not backed up by the evidence.


What's to stop—not slow down, but stop some one or ones from, so to speak, turning the tide with regard to RSS's adoption by the tech-indifferent?

What mindset was there to begin with prior to the shift to Twitter, et.al?

Also, please, will you elaborate on the shift?


RSS won't be adopted by the tech-indifferent because it's a technology. It's not a service or a company and therefore doesn't have anyone with a vested financial interest pushing it as a platform. Also, it doesn't fit into the advertising-funded clickbaity world. It's therefore only adopted by people who think about what they are doing and what they want out of their internet, rather than people following the shiny path of least resistance and most popularity.


I'm in agreement.

(My mistake on using adopt when it was probably better to say "use".)


People forget about the social element of Google Reader. It never took off - the ability to follow your friends and see what they are reading - to share articles with contacts etc.

I'd have liked more leveraging of the social graph with that app - they missed an opportunity


I believe that's a central feature of NewsBlur now.

I use InoReader primarily because it de-emphasizes the social element; it's something I don't feel the need to use. It does still have an option to view "trending" content across (presumably) all users' subscriptions, it's just not in your face if you don't want it.




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