there is a problem to be solved. empty shops make shopping areas unattractive. walking through a half empty mall or shopping street is depressive.
i see this all the time in china and in developing countries in general. they build huge malls, and then they can't fill them because there are not enough businesses who can pay the rent being asked. at least there is growth and the place will fill up eventually. but until that happens the place is less attractive.
seeing the same in europe in malls or shopping streets is even worse because it feels like the economy is declining. you have to apply the broken window theory here. the more shops stay empty the less people will go there to visit the remaining shops. their revenue goes down, they can't afford the rent anymore and another shop is empty. if this becomes a trend then you risk that the shops will never come back.
it is therefore in the interest of landlords and the city to keep the streets alive and fill them with businesses that attract people.
ignoring this problem is just a sign of greed. instead of building a vibrant space they just want to extract as much money as possible.
instead of being forced to foreclose the banks should be forced to extend the loan and eat the loss. foreclosing will cause them a loss too. so the banks are not better off either way.
the article says the building is an income stream.
no, it isn't.
the building is part of a community. the needs of the community top your need to make a profit. yes, this means the community should probably contribute to make your work financially viable, and one way they can do that is by making policy that gives you more reasonable conditions to pay off your loan so that a foreclosure is not necessary.
no, i can't. the rent is to high. which means the rent is not market-rate. the free market was supposed to correct that, but it doesn't, so maybe this is not a free market after all.
if my business doesn't make enough profit then i literally can't. that's not an opinion or a choice. that's a fact of life. and if noone is willing to pay that much rent whether they could afford it or not, then the rent is not market-rate. that's not an opinion. that's how market-rate is defined. it is what the market is willing to pay.
you are missing the point, i don't care if i can buy this or not. i care that the street is attractive to people. if i do have a shop in the street (because i can actually afford it) then i care even more because if the street is not attractive then that is hurting my business.
the problem is not that i can't afford it. the problem is that NOBODY can afford it. free market rules then suggest that the value of that thing goes down and thus the price should go down too if the building owner has any interest in selling that thing.
and here is where the free market idea causes a conflict, because if they don't have an interest to sell then their interest and the city's interests are misaligned and the city should force the building-owner out.
or, you could also argue that the city itself is a market participant, because the city owns the land the shops are built on, and it leases or sells that land with specific expectations, namely that shops are built and rented out. if the renting out does not happen then the city's contract with the builder is violated and the city should have a right to take action.
Yes I understand your point - you are just a commentator with no actual interest in the matter hand. Not an owner, not a tenant, just some random stranger strolling on the street thinking other people should do something because you think it's the greater good.
Now you're proposing a different ownership model completely or that a government/city should be able to force a legal owner out of their legally owned property?
Honestly I think you need to back up and really consider what you're proposing.
i am considering what i am proposing. but i can't do that alone. throwing my ideas out there and having them critiqued with counterarguments is the point. if you just say i have no clue and my ideas are bad and i should reconsider then i am not going to learn anything. i can only reconsider if i get new input about what's wrong with my idea.
basically you act like the error in my idea should be obvious, and i should be able to figure that out by myself. well, no, because if i could, i already would have. i don't write stuff without thinking about it. it may look like that to you, but only because you seem to know something that i don't. please share.
and what do you mean by no actual interest? have i not explained my interest? do you think the interests of the people living in the city are irrelevant? only owners and tenants count? well, most certainly not. but if you do not accept that the city and its inhabitants should have an interest in this matter then our problem is that we have a fundamental disagreement in our worldview.
Well, sort of. One scenario is to say "it is illegal to let your property be vacant (for more than X months etc. etc.)". Then suddenly all these owners are violating laws. Another is to say "it is illegal to hold more than $100 million of wealth". Then a bunch of rich people are in violation. Laws are what we make them. The point here is that the current laws are inadequate to produce the society people want to live in. You may be right that no laws are being violated currently in many cases, but that doesn't mean things are fine; it just means we need better laws.
No one is getting that law across the line in any sane country, I’m not even sure why the conversation has veered this far off-topic. Suddenly because some people here do not like commercial vacancies all of a sudden laws are changing so properties are never vacant.
Can’t wait for people here to begin arguing Elon should just sell/give up his equity because Starship hasn’t launched successfully yet.
Not everything needs to make sense to a bunch of IT peeps so, politely, either genuinely learn about commercial property or take a hike.
well i am not from a sane country i guess. keeping homes vacant is already illegal in germany in most places, and laws against vacant commercial properties are being discussed.
this is not just about how commercial property works, but this is about how urban planning works.
you keep insisting that i am a non-interested party. i am speaking for the city and the community. please explain to me how they are non-interested parties.
the needs of the community outweigh the needs of land and building owners. as an owner you are to serve the community. if you don't want to do that then you have no business being part of that community. we'll try to work with you to find an amicable solution, but if you refuse and leave your building abandoned then we can force you to sell. laws to that end already exist. they are used sparingly, but they are there if we really need them.
real estate must be the worst thing to use as an argument for "it's a free market" - because its one of the types of things which every stock is it's own, truly unique monopoly. I can't "freely" produce the same commercial property, unless I already own that property.
in order to join that market you have to buy at the inflated prices on the market, since current owners refuse to sell for a loss, there's nothing you can do as an individual to make this cheaper unless you already own the land.
Location still matters, as it does for residential, proximity to employees, or customers is important.
Zoning restricts what land can do what.
There's many reasons why this isn't a "free market"
The people advocating for change in this situation likely advocated for all the impediments you’re providing as to reasons why it’s not supposedly a free market.
Someone bought an asset they could afford to hold in bad times. End of story.
How, specifically? If they refuse to acknowledge the building is worth less than they expected, they aren't going to sell it to you at a price where you can make money either.
You’re stating the outcome - the property is worth less - without understanding how people buy/sell said property. And asking why others don’t agree?
The article outlines the methods used for the most part to the best of my knowledge, as someone who owns and deals in this space.
I think you need to lay out a better argument for why your thesis is the case when what happens in the real world mirrors what the article discusses. Not to mention people forget property can be owned without a bank/loan, nor that vacancies are expected/factored in.
