I expect lifetime updates. I get that on my real computers: my Linux distribution doesn't suddenly stop updating just because my computer is 3+ years old. Why should phones be any different? You're telling me these trillion dollar corporations can't match the quality of service of Linux distribution maintainers?
> I expect lifetime updates. I get that on my real computers: my Linux distribution doesn't suddenly stop updating just because my computer is 3+ years old. Why should phones be any different?
No other desktop OS works like that. Both Windows and MacOS sunset support for devices. Admittedly - after much, much more time than phone OSes, though.
> You're telling me these trillion dollar corporations can't match the quality of service of Linux distribution maintainers?
I mean, "quality" means different things. There's a reason the "year of the linux desktop" still hasn't arrived.
But yes - volunteers do things that corporations won't.
> Both Windows and MacOS sunset support for devices
Yeah, and they suck too because of it.
Truth is there should be no need for them to "support" anything. All they have to do was get their device driver code into the Linux kernel where it belongs. Then everything would work out of the box and the Linux community would support their device for them. If things change, the community will fix their driver for them. If no one does, it's because nobody's using it.
But no, they just need to keep making shitty proprietary software instead. As a result I get insanity like "manufacturer applications" that only work in a single version of Windows to control stuff like laptop fans, power profiles and keyboard LEDs. Software so shoddy it takes over a minute to display a window on the screen. I had to reverse engineer that crap and write a Linux version to make my system usable again. I went as far as my skills allowed me to go and the result was free software that will work forever. That's what quality means to me.
> "quality" means different things.
"Quality" here means shipping software continuously to a diverse set of users and having things not break down just because they'd really enjoy it if we bought their latest flagship phone. I get that on my Linux laptop, why not on a phone?
> But yes - volunteers do things that corporations won't.
Yes, and these corporations should be profoundly ashamed of themselves that they can't match what a bunch of "volunteers" provide even though they're worth billions.
Some professionals. It certainly seems to be the rule rather than the exception with these corporations. The copyright industry literally can't match the quality of the output of a bunch of "pirates" either: while they're streaming to their paying customers some shitty compressed video with artifacts in 95% black frames, "pirates" get blu-ray remuxes in convenient DRM-free formats.
> No other desktop OS works like that. Both Windows and MacOS sunset support for devices. Admittedly - after much, much more time than phone OSes, though.
10x more. Windows 10 runs on computers that are 20 years old.
You have to remember billions of people don't live in the west, they live in india or africa where they use equipment much longer.
10 - 20 years is a real lifespan for cars and appliances, it is also realistic for electronics (leaving batteries aside).
The pace of improvement for computer hardware is slowing, so this issue will become more relevant
> 10x more. Windows 10 runs on computers that are 20 years old.
1. The last Apple phone that lost OS suppose was the iPhone 6. Apple supported that phone for 7 years.
2. I'm skeptical that Windows 10 would run on many Pentium IV computers. Windows 8 only came out 11 years ago. And I remember a whole lot of computers out there that couldn't run that at the time.
I feel a bit vidicated by that video. In the beginning, he basically says that he needed to run the rare last variant of the Pentium IV to get it to work and that most Pentium IVs would be impossible to get it to work.
Pretty impressive that it's possible at all, though.
Do you? Or do you just say/write/comment that you expect that? Actual expecting would be refusing to buy a phone that didn't provide said updates. Otherwise it's just an HN comment, with no (real, physical, 'economic') role to play, certainly not that of an expectation.
I absolutely do. I always buy top of the line flagship phones and use them until they literally break down. Well, I used to do that: my next phone will be an iPhone because of stupid problems like this.
Truth is Android's situation used to be tolerable for me because I would always trash the official OS and run something like LineageOS instead. Unfortunately, that will become impossible due to hardware remote attestation. Therefore, I no longer care about Android phones unless they run postmarketOS.
Yes, EU needs to step in and deal with the software lifespan problems on Android just as they have with ports and repairability on Apple. It is obvious that this is a market failure leading to negative social outcomes (e-waste) and phone vendors clearly are not going to deal with it on their own.
This really should be from date-of-purchase and not date-of-launch as well. Otherwise you're leaving refurbished phones out in the cold too. We should be encouraging refurbishment and not giving those users a worse experience - if anything the law should attempt to favor them, they're doing the thing we want.
Requiring bootloader unlock when support ceases is another fantastic idea someone pointed out - and that one will hit Apple too honestly. But if you're not going to support the thing then at least let someone else do it.
That actually makes me really happy to hear tbh. Unpopular take but the support story scared me away from android for my second smartphone (and I buy for 5+ years), it just was a real mess with my cheapo Moto G Falcon, say what you want about iOS lockdowns (as a nerd/dev I think there are logical ideas there taken to sometimes-unpopular conclusions around eg app sandboxing, app store root-of-trust freedom vs permissioning social enforceability, etc) but $50 for a battery replacement plus a couple otterbox cases for 5+ years of ownership (with my 8+) has been a very reasonable overall package.
I don't mind "bundling" service into the initial purchase if that guarantees it'll be there and I also get a premium phone with walk-in service with first-party repair staff and parts (not at+t store or w/e either) etc. I've shifted to (lower-end/refurb) apple devices for a few things and I know the TCO involved and I find it favorable overall given the expected longevity and service levels and device quality.
But there needs to be more than one "gets 5+ years of solid support" option on the market so that shitty point A doesn't lead to a lock-in on shitty point B. At the end of the day competition is what keeps the ecosystems relatively honest and having options if Apple does a dick move is always welcome too.
I expect manufacturers not to offer bad options like a 150 € phone with 3 years of updates. Give me a 200€ phone with 5 years? Or a 10€ service fee per year of updates.
The problem is: you and ten other persons might genuinely pay for that after three years (also considering the specs of this thing). In silicon valley, I suspect devs can't open up their env for that money and still put food on the table in the evening after paying for their morning outdoor coffee and rent.
I'm curious how much work honestly goes into these updates, though. How many patches do they maintain on top of Android that security updates would cause them to need to fix their patches again? Or how many parts of Android are even changed by those updates in a given month? I don't really have any idea of either proportion. How much money would it require us to pool to get one month longer security updates? One year?
May be something to ask Fairphone, they seem like the type of business that might be willing to share this for the purpose of pressuring the market to offer the support after a successful crowdfunding campaign.
